Dr. Dezra White
Interview with: Dr. Dezra White
Interviewed by: Leigh Cutler
Date: March 15, 2005
Transcribed by: Leigh Cutler
LC: This is Leigh Cutler interviewing Dr. Dezra White for a project about the history of African-American physicians in Houston. The interview is taking place at Dr. White’s office in Houston, Texas at 2101 Crawford Street, Suite 312. The date is Tuesday, March 15th, 2005. If you could tell me your full name, when you were born, and just a little bit about your background…
DW: Ok, full name is Dezra, always have to spell it, D-E-Z-R-A White, and born 1941, Beaumont, Texas. I went to school there, high school, _____High School, finished there, went to Morehouse College, Atlanta, Georgia, and from Morehouse, came back to Texas for the University of Texas, UTMB, which is in Galveston. After finishing that, I did my residency here in Houston – well, I internship(ed) first in Ob/GYN at St. Joseph’s Hospital – then the next three years, residency in Ob/GYN at St. Joseph’s Hospital. After you finish residence, you’ve got to take the Boards and everything else. I am Boarded by the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology. So, I’m a board-certified Ob/GYN and I’ve been working hard for twenty-something years. (Laughs)
LC: And so you decided to stay in Houston after your residency?
DW: Right, yes.
LC: What was it about Houston that made you stay?
DW: Well, I did my training here, so usually they say where you do your training, you sort of get a feel for people, and what impressed me was the opportunity here in Houston for me as a black physician. And they had a good group of black physicians even before I came here. That’s when St. Elizabeth’s Hospital was in full formation and Riverside Hospital…
LC: Was that when you started your practice?
DW: I finished my residency in ’72, and I joined a group – it was Dr. Holllins and Dr. Lord – that was by themselves, at Lockwood, and I joined them. And you know, things happen over the years, and I’ve been in practice by myself now for three years. Dr. Lord left the group first, then two years ago Dr. Hollins was about ready to retire, to go back over to Lockwood. By that time, we had an office right across the street, so I stayed centrally located because I’m still delivering babies and wanted to be near St. Joseph’s Hospital. But the reason I say, because of the core black physicians that were already here, also my brother-in-law, Dr. Hermann Barnett, he was the first graduate from University of Texas Medical Branch. He was here in anesthesiology and, of course, as a good brother-in-law, he was twisting my arm also to stay here. So, you need to research Dr. Barnett. His widow, my sister, is here. She’d be a good source of information.
LC: So, he’s your sister’s husband.
DW: Yeah, older sister, right.
LC: That’s interesting. Did you ever leave Houston to practice anywhere else, or you’ve been here since the beginning? DW: I’ve been here since. I always say if I wouldn’t be here, I would be in Atlanta, Georgia because Atlanta has a good base of, you know, black physicians, and all the colleges that are there, the black universities – Morehouse, Spellman, Clark, AU Center – are a good source of patients. And I would say that Houston and Atlanta are somewhat similar, as far as blacks are concerned. I feel as though in Atlanta they’re a diamond that’s been polished, whereas Houston, it’s a diamond in the rough. (Laughs)
LC: Is there anything you would say is unique in Houston about the medical community, whether it’s about the black medical community or just in general? Is there something about Houston that is unique?
DW: I would say, Houston’s spread out, number one, and you really can’t be all things to all people, to every hospital, but if you are in an area – like I did my training at St. Joe’s and here I am doing my deliveries at St. Joe’s – you develop a good rapport, relationship, not only with the black doctors, but all the doctors that work at St. Joe’s. They know your abilities, what you can do, and have no problem in referring patients to you, no matter what. And I would say, whether they’re black or white. Now that’s just the way it is, my referrals may come from black physicians. White physicians are going to refer most of their patients to white physicians. That’s just the way it is, but because we have a good base of black physicians, it sort of complements all of us. If I have a lady with a bladder problem, I have a black urologist, a black dermatologist… you know, I make sure that as they refer patients to me, I refer patients back to them.
LC: And that creates kind of a community?
DW: Right, yeah, right. And you find that in different areas in Houston. I just happen to be in the central location, at St. Joe’s. I work at St. Joe’s, Park Plaza, which is right up the street, and Twelve Oaks, right off 59. I live inside the Loop, I work inside the Loop. (Laughs)
LC: That’s convenient! And you are a member of Houston Medical Forum?
DW: Yes, I am.
LC: And how long have you been a member?
DW: Since I started practicing.
LC: Have you ever held any officer positions?
DW: This year I’m member-at-large. I was asked to be president one time, but I’m too busy really to do that, and Ob/GYN.
LC: I know that Houston Medical Forum has been a pretty big organization for black physicians. Was that something that was kind of an immediate thing that you joined right after your residency?
DW: Oh yeah, because I knew many of the physicians here in Houston, being from Beaumont, Texas, and I had three uncles who were physicians in Beaumont, Texas. I knew several of the older black physicians, who have since expired, before I even came here. So there were many of them here, members of the Houston Medical Forum, and it was just obvious, had no question about whether I was going to join or not. It was definite I was going to join.
LC: How has that helped your work?
DW: I would say, number one, we have meetings every month, and again, you see other physicians there. I tell the young physicians, “Come there, this is how people get to know you, you get referrals, and you get to know the other physicians.” It’s a win-win situation for everybody. And also, we’re not as big as the Harris County Medical Society, and of course the National Medical Society, which is the national thing, is not as big as the American Medical Society. But, by maintaining your identity, you can be more effective, politically or whatever, because when they want the black physicians, they know to come to Houston Medical Forum. Otherwise, if we were part of the Harris County Medical Society, and a sub-group, they may not even find us because the head honchos are going to do their thing first, and have their own parties. That’s even nationally because the black caucus, when they want to know about the black physicians, they’re not going to go to the American Medical Society and say, “Let me talk to your physicians,” because they’re somewhere buried, diluted. They’re going to go to the National Medical Society, and because we’ve found that as a good political arm, it’s not going to be disbanded. Some people say, “Why don’t you just fade on into the Harris County Medical Society?” And, yeah, we’d just be fading on into Harris County Medical Society – no voting power, always out-voted, and everything else.
LC: That’s interesting, makes sense. Will you tell me who your uncles were in Beaumont?
DW: Dr. Edward Sprott – he was the older of the three brothers. Then, Dr. Curtis Sprott, and Dr. Maxi Sprott. And of course, the older uncle, he was very aggressive, and at that point in the 40s and 50s he got a loan and built his own hospital. Blacks could not go into the hospitals at that time and so they had their own little hospital. They did surgery and everything else. And me and my cousin, Edward, we’d go behind the hospital, on the back side of the operating room, and we’d go up and look in the window and see them operate. Of course, we couldn’t see what the hell they were doing, but the hospitals were always around there. So, that was the visual thing that sort of enticed me about being a doctor. We were always around our uncles. The area that we lived – the hospital was there in that same area, on Cartwright Street. Going two blocks up was Houston Street, and I lived about four blocks down. We had, I guess what you might call a Sprott community. About five or six of us lived within that same four or five block area. (Brief cell phone ringing interruption) So, I guess that close relationship to my uncles… and we would just go walk in the hospital and say, “I need a shot,” or whatever, you know, no appointments…
LC: So that was what influenced you?
DW: Obviously they had a strong influence on me, yeah, and then while I was still in junior high, that’s when my older sister met Dr. Barnett, and so he became like a big brother to me before I even finished high school. And, of course, I went to Morehouse. I don’t know if you know about Morehouse – it’s black, male. Of course, right across the street is Spellman, all female. And they have a very strong program in pre-med, so I felt strong there. When they find you want to become a physician, they make sure you’re taking the right courses, make sure your grades… so when you take the test, hopefully you’ll get in.
LC: Okay, to what extent do you think your achievements as a doctor have influenced the younger African American generation around you in Houston?
DW: I can’t say, really… I just probably do my work on a daily basis and communicate with them. Because I’m an Ob/GYN, I just see predominantly females, but I’m very active in my church and in the Alphas and other organizations. Especially, we have a Morehouse alumni association here, and so I’m very active with that.
LC: Like a Houston-based alumni…
DW: Yeah, Houston-based alumni association. So, I just try to be professional in everything I do, that this will influence them in a positive manner.
LC: What contributions do you think black physicians have made to the Houston community as a whole?
DW: I would say, as a whole, they have made – just by our presence, we have kept people on their p’s and q’s. (Laughs) With the political – Sheila Jackson Lee, Sylvester Turner – I can’t think of all of their names, but they have always come to us for any advice or whatever. I’ve contributed both to Sylvester Turner’s campaign, Sheila Jackson Lee’s campaign, and when Mayor Brown was running, he made sure he came to the Houston Medical Forum. I met him with another black group and even when… who’s our mayor now?
LC: Oh, Bill White.
DW: Bill White, yeah. You know, he made sure his presence was known to the black physicians and to the Houston Medical Forum. I’m not a political physician, but there are some doctors here who are very political. Do you have the name of Dr. Natalie Carroll?
LC: Yes.
DW: You need to talk to her because her father was one of the physicians from way back when. As a matter of fact, he was influential in getting Dr. Barnett to come to Houston because Dr. Barnett really set up his office in Texas City as a surgeon, but Dr. Carroll was the one who talked to him about coming to Houston.
LC: Yeah, we’re going to be talking to her, too. She’s been recommended to us by a few people.
DW: Now, she’s political. And she is past president of the National Medical Association, so she was – I say, she’s very political. She probably has more in-depth answers than I can give to you.
LC: Okay, good.
DW: Also, let me say, another impact… I believe we’ve made a positive impact at all the hospitals we go to because there’s just a perception, “Oh, that’s a black doctor.” They think we’re inferior or we know less than they do. And they find out, we know just as much as you do, or more! You know, but it’s just that concept that goes back from way back when. We’re slowly overcoming that. Maybe with the next generation…
LC: Yeah, that’s kind of the next question I was going to ask you – how have you dealt with obstacles that might come about, such as discrimination?
DW: It’s something you just have to sort of swallow, or bite the bullet. In medical school, the chief of surgery, which was white, well, still white…but he was talking about what you may find, and said, “Next thing you know, there’s a nigger in the wood pile!” That was the big chief of surgery at UTMB. There were two of us blacks in there, not so many, and of course all of the class got quiet, but I’m just a student. What am I going to do, get him removed? With his tenure, and his expertise, and everything else…so, that was my freshman year in med school! (Laughs)
LC: That must have also kind of spurred you on to be, you know…
DW: Well, to try to be better, the best I can… I wasn’t number one in my class, now! (Laughs)
LC: And were you, in your class, one of two blacks?
DW: Yeah, at that time, they had about two or three of us per year, at that particular time. Now, in Galveston, they’ve got about ten or twelve per year. Baylor has a good number of blacks, but UT, Texas, they have a small – I don’t know what the numbers are, but just what I hear – but where Baylor has ten to fifteen per class, they may have just, say, their quota. So, you still see that. Also, sometimes things happen in the hospital you don’t know about because you’re not part of the inner circle. When different things come up, you know, or there’s a group coming to the hospital that wants to offer a group of doctors part of a insurance program or whatever. This did happen with Fiesta. In the Ob/GYN department, I didn’t know anything about it. Fiesta, the stores here - this was about ten or fifteen years ago - they had their insurance and they wanted doctors on their panel. No black doctors were on that panel, or I say, minority doctors. Fiesta’s got a whole bunch of Hispanics. (Laughs) So, there’s still some things under… you don’t see it, but…
LC: Would you say you would see that as an obstacle in your career now?
DW: Not really. No, that still irks you. Maybe it is an obstacle – maybe I’d have some more money! (Laughs) But there’s still some subtle discrimination. They smile at you in your face, but turn your back and they’ll stab you in the back. Not all of them – there are some good white folks! (Laughs)
LC: What would you say is the greatest contribution by a black physician to the medical field in Houston?
DW: I would go back to Dr. Barnett. He finished high in the class in Galveston, and he came here…He was like a bull in a china closet. He was just making waves, applied to St. Joe’s… He was a surgeon, but he did his residency there at St. Joe’s - very number one, very super in his field – and also he ran for trustee for the Houston Independent School District, and was on the board of the Houston Independent School District. So, he not only was a physician, but extended himself into the community and was known throughout the community, not only as a good physician, but because of his position on the school board of HISD. He was killed tragically in a plane crash. He flew his own plane, and that’s Barnett Stadium that’s named after him.
LC: And when did he die?
DW: Late 60s, or three or four years after I started practicing. I’m sorry – mid to late 70s. So his widow, my older sister, would be good to talk to.
LC: How has the medical field changed in Houston for African Americans over time?
DW: Well, more access to a lot of things just not available to us. Before the 60s, blacks couldn’t even go to hospitals – black physicians. That’s why St. Elizabeth’s and Riverside were so strong with the black physicians. But with time, everything else opened up. When I was coming through, we just had the opportunity to maybe finish med school, go out in family practice, or take your residency. But now the opportunity for these young physicians to go into sub-specialties of the residency – into heart surgery, to become a heart surgeon, some fellowships going beyond just their internship. This is available at MD Anderson…You go out to MD Anderson or anywhere in the Medical Center and see doctors that’ve done not only just their training… Usually you get your training, internship, and residency, and then you go out and practice. For someone to become that super specialist goes beyond that, so that has opened up, I guess. And those young physicians going into that – they are doing great. So, that removes that myth, the black, quote, inferiority. Tuskegee Airmen? That was an experiment set up to fail.
LC: I know only a little bit about that.
DW: They said the blacks can’t fly airplanes, and Mrs. Roosevelt – she and her husband were very instrumental – and so they finally decided, “Okay, let’s set up this school at Tuskegee for the black airmen, to show they can’t fly planes.” It was set up to fail. Those black boys got in those planes and flew the hell out of them! They can fly planes, you know! But, it was set up to fail, okay. So once they’ve got the opportunity – just like those young black boys back in the 40s flew those planes like hell – give blacks the opportunity…Those that have that initiative, and gumption, and know-how, you know, the ability and that drive, open the door for them and (whoosh, clap), they’ll take off with it! Just like anybody, there are lazy folks in all races, you know, you just don’t even open the door for them. But those with that initiative and that drive, let them get their foot in there and they’ll take it.
LC: Okay, what would you say is the place of African American women in the medical field right now?
DW: They are very positive role models. And Dr. Natalie Carroll, I’ll put her as one of the other… And they’re good role models for other young black women because the black women have been on the bottom of the totem pole, and by being positive role models, I would say, young girls…As a matter of fact, in medicine now it’s becoming more females than males completely. Not only black, but you know… Like in the residency program at St. Joe’s in Ob/GYN, it may be a new program that had brought in four females and one male. So, medicine is becoming female. But obviously, the black women physicians have been very good role models, and still very smart, got their p’s and q’s together, and so they present a positive image, now leading into the community itself. Shelia Jackson Lee and Natalie Carroll are just like this (makes a gesture meaning close friends).
LC: To talk a bit about yourself a little more, what would you say is your favorite accomplishment that you have made as a doctor?
DW: Probably there’s one…my consistency, you know, being available for my patients. Normally, you have to be available for patients, for them to like you, to come to be with you. I’ve never been political. I’ve always supported different political organizations. I support my church. I go to Brookhollow Baptist Church, and each year they do a…like a little Yellow Pages. It’s a little book of…it’s called the…what ministry is that? The empowerment ministry, where there are people who are in business. They have a business directory of the church members. So, we have lawyers, physicians, a lot of hairstylists and nail stylists, you know, all in that book. And so I contribute a lot to my church. I contribute to the United Negro College Fund. That’s a big…you know about the United Negro College Fund? It’s a national organization for the blacks undergrad, and I always contribute to that. I always contribute to my school, Morehouse College. I’m sort of consistent, not maybe one thing, but just other things… I support the black artists. I don’t know if you were walking through my office…I have, quote, a black gallery of black art. Even in my home, some of the artists have come and brought me their pieces and all. There are mostly pieces of ivory up there (pointing to office wall) and that’s another wood piece. So, I support a lot of the black arts – The Ensemble Theatre, I support them and their things. And there’s the – this weekend – the Five-A…
LC: Oh, at the Museum of Fine Arts?
DW: Yeah, Museum of Fine Arts, yeah. I’m a supporter of them, too. I’m going to that also. Through that, they have purchased different pieces, done by professional, by black artists. They’re a big museum, but they don’t know how to pick black art.
LC: Well, it’s nice to have the community involved.
DW: Yeah, people who know, and know what we would want, not their perception of what is black art. (Laughs)
LC: Well, that’s great. As you know, the information that we’re gathering together will eventually become part of an exhibit that the Houston Medical Forum hopes to travel to area high school students. So, what advice would you give to high school students who are interested in medicine, but maybe they feel constrained by financial hardship or lack of family support?
DW: If they have the initiative and drive, you can always overcome. There are so many loans… Also, even in my church, if we see there’s that kid who’s doing well in school, got that drive, but their family may not have finances and all, there are scholarships available for them. I’ve even given some money out of my back pocket, you know. Through my church, there was a young guy who wanted to go to Morehouse… Every year that comes over and over – little kids need money and all. But I would say, don’t give up; make sure they have a good, strong counselor. I hate to say, if you have a white counselor at some of these predominant white schools, their perception is just way out. And whether they need to go to the black community or somebody in their schools, or their church – a black professional who can sort of guide that child. They usually may know someone in their community who sort of inspired them to do this or that, and I would say most of us are very open to a lot of the young kids, because that’s our future. I just have maybe a few more years left, and I’m gone, who’s going to replace me? So, we have to go out there and encourage them. I would say, even their finances, or they don’t have any family support…because Houston Medical Forum is trying to have a mentoring…I don’t know if these are for students, something they’re trying to put into effect, or maybe…I know medical students may want to come to the office and see what you’re doing, but I’d even reach down to high school students to just come, spend the day…
LC: Like a shadowing?
DW: Yeah, and just shadow that doctor and all. I think that’d be very great. Plus, I believe, it’s just how we carry ourselves when we are in different settings. Like, say in my church, I try to act very professional, you know, dress nice and everything else – I don’t know if they’re looking at me or not! That’s just the way I can be a positive role model, and if they have the initiative and drive, they can do it. Many schools offer scholarships – I always talk about Morehouse because I went there. They do have scholarships, and they have extended themselves to the young black men who don’t really have all the… When I was there, do you know David Satcher? He was the past, under Bush’s administration, surgeon general. First black surgeon general – under daddy Bush, not this Bush, but George Bush #1 – from Anniston, Alabama. His parents were sharecroppers, no money, at all, but he came to Morehouse. People knew he had that drive and energy, even from Anniston, they wrote letters for him to Morehouse and Morehouse just sort of went out of their way. And Morehouse, I believe has probably gone – they’re good now ‘cause they’ve got a good reputation and get the good money and everything else – but back in that day, they’d probably gone into red, sacrificing to get these young, African-American males who had that drive. David, we elected him as president of the student council. He left Morehouse and was accepted to the University of Chicago – got a dual degree in medicine and PhD. He never went into private practice. They got him out there at the University of California, then went to Meharry for a while as, I don’t know whether it was the president, but some position there. Then he was accepted, appointed by Bush as surgeon general of the United States – you know, the United States physician. His term has ended. Now he’s at the Morehouse School of Medicine in Atlanta. But he had nothing! Also, with the black schools, the undergrads, you know they never had the endowment that the big schools had, predominantly white schools, but they sacrificed a lot to make sure that these young black students got through. And some got through, probably on an arm and a leg, probably never paid everything, and schools never collected. So, that’s why the schools were never, quote, rich.
LC: That’s interesting. I didn’t know about all that. Well, that’s all the questions I really have, but if there’s anything else that maybe I missed or that you wanted to…
DW: I would say that there’s still some subtle discrimination – on the outside, not on the inside – there are little circles here and there, that when things come up, or whatever, you’re not aware of until after the fact is born. So, that’s why we still have to maintain the Houston Medical Forum…(Laughs)…and the National Medical Association – so we’ll have our own clout.
LC: Okay, anything else?
DW: I believe that’s it. We’ve sort of covered everything!
LC: Thanks so much!